|
Post by jordancbrun on Aug 8, 2011 16:49:55 GMT -5
Michael-
Role play to your heart's content. I'd figure that you'd have some tools and equipment to make weapons, even though you don't "technically" have a workshop in the out of game sense.
And, for those of you stressing over 50 gold to get a workshop, they have been found as treasure on events before in this chapter...
|
|
Sticks
Full Member
Fetch!
Posts: 143
|
Post by Sticks on Aug 8, 2011 17:35:15 GMT -5
Its not so much that 50 gold is a lot of money, its a matter of economics.
5 events a year times two year duration means 10 events with a lab at 50g means 5gold an event. That is assuming the events are all held in sanctuary, which only about half are so far which then doubles the per event cost to 10g which is I guess a break even point assuming that all 100 levels of the lab get used. So even with a portable one you still need to use 50 of the 100 production levels available in the lab to reach a break even point.
This is going on the basis that 1 goblin stamp is worth 1 silver piece, which nero national has already dictated for us and since 1 goblin stamp can also get you 1 level of production we have a nationally defined economy that will deviate slightly based upon mercantile factors but since those can flux both us and down they become largely a wash for comparison purposes like these.
In conclusion, my hypothesis is that while 50g is not a lot of money. The things produced through that 50g are also not worth a lot of money (thank you goblin stamps) and at that price unless the market fluctuates in a very favorable way you are taking a significant risk on your money invested vs money returned....from a purely mercantile standpoint.
Obviously the conclusive answer for those who dont want to take that risk is to simply not purchase those skills....unless of course they already purchased them under certain cost ratio assumptions...in which case they are simply stuck or in need of a spirit forge.
Im just rambling now...so I will stop and apologize now as its been a long day and this is the 4th attempt to reply to this post and not sound like an ass while still getting my point across...I have conceded one of those in an attempt to accomplish the other....I myself am not exactly sure which one was compromised yet.
-Evan
|
|
|
Post by Flinglecask Digroot on Apr 3, 2012 12:49:34 GMT -5
After a few events of production under the new system, I am starting to think 50gp is too expensive to make workshops viable. I think Evan's got this one right.
As a master craftsman that also donates lots of things to the chapter for goblins, I can come in with 160 levels of production over a weekend, without a workshop, for the price of two gold. The math works out as 10 levels + 10 master levels + 10 purchased levels = 30 levels per day, times two days = 60 levels, + 100 levels of goblin production at 1:1 = 160 levels. For only two gold out of pocket, that's over 25 vertigo gases, for example.
Buying a workshop really only gets you, over the course of the weekend, 20 additional levels. On an event-to-event basis, that's a very small increase. I'll leave it to Evan's math on the value of the increased production over the life of the workshop tag. But there are other considerations as well.
The price tag of 50 gold is a major disincentive to PCs to put together workshops and lug them to camp every event. If the goal is to increase the number of people that do this, to enrich the feel of the game, then one of two things needs to happen, as I see it. One possibility is to make workshops produce more, to make the 50 gold price tag economically viable from an in-game perspective, and make it worth it to the PCs who haven't done so yet to buy all the stuff out of game that is necessary to rep it in game. But the rules may prevent workshops from producing more. So the other option, as I see it, is to reduce their cost.
Maybe the cost reduction would be in a sliding scale to how well the workshop is repped. A full blown rep would make the workshop cost only 5 gold. No rep at all would make it cost 50 gold. This is just an idea to get more people to make the reps and bring them every event. And it would also allow someone with a good rep to buy the in-game workshop at a price that they could actually make back with the extra production they would get with the use of the workshop.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Culloden on Apr 3, 2012 15:05:36 GMT -5
I always liked workshops and there price. I believe the way to make them worth wild is simple each workshop as Bill stated can produce 100 pts per day in groups of up to 20. So if you max that out you get 5 people per lab per day with 20 lvls that equals 200pts per weekend at a cost to the craftsmen of 10 gold for two years. Even if you only get 4 masters its 80pts per event at a cost of 12.5 gold for two years, which I think is reasonable. The object is for a town of at least a group to have a workshop not Culloden, sticks, Flinglecask, Almond etc.etc. etc to have there own.
One thing we can do and I'll talk to Bill about it is being able to use Traveling labs at both chapters.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 3, 2012 15:24:38 GMT -5
I agree with Dave on this one. The math that was getting thrown around earlier doesn't include two pieces: 1. More than one craftsman using the workshop. 2. The potential for income from a second craftsman pay rent for a slot in your workshop. When you think about it, a master craftsman buying a workshop and only using it himself is a lot like a single guy buying a bus and then complaining about the gas mileage. The difference, of course, is that NERO doesn't allow you to buy a compact car. I do, however, like the idea of rewarding people who actually phys rep a workshop. The problem with giving them a discount for the effort, though, is that once the tag is out there, there is no way to know whether they will continue to use the rep (unless you make it a more complicated tag). At this point, I am considering going back to a system where a regular workshop costs 25 gold and a traveling workshop costs 50 gold. If you fully rep the workshop, then you are allowed to travel with a standard workshop (saving you 25 gold). That way there's no extra complication with the tagging issue. I also am completely on board with making workshops travel between our chapters, Dave.
|
|
|
Post by Culloden on Apr 3, 2012 15:52:30 GMT -5
Done and done
Spoiler: in the pars I have even gotten npcs to pay rent.
|
|
|
Post by Flinglecask Digroot on Apr 3, 2012 16:15:02 GMT -5
Fair points about more than one craftsman and the potential for charging rent. I also see the issue with the tag being released into the wild. Another way to do this, if logistics would allow, would be to make the workshop issue be event to event. If the rep is there, you have a workshop, the cost of which for that event is on a sliding scale. Obviously this would be unduly burdesome, though, so we are left to other alternatives.
In the absence of any better proposal, I think Bill's suggestion to do the 25/50, where a 25 gold workshop if full blown repped can travel, is a good way to go.
BRING OUT THE RENT LEDGERS! ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Culloden on Apr 3, 2012 16:48:26 GMT -5
I believe you miss read a 25 would be stationary and 50 would travel
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 3, 2012 17:16:17 GMT -5
No, he's right. 25 gold is stationary, but IF you rep it you are allowed to travel with it. 50 gold gets you one that will travel without repping.
|
|
|
Post by Culloden on Apr 3, 2012 20:19:26 GMT -5
Oh ok thank you
|
|
YarN
New Member
Posts: 46
|
Post by YarN on Apr 20, 2012 19:24:47 GMT -5
So, just to clarify?
During the march GR gather, I phys-reped a smithy that got a couple complements. At the end of that game I was able to turn in 50 gold (thanks to the guys from Vegas) for the purchase of the workshop. Now, since it is phys-reped and fully purchased, you are saying that I can (in-game) bring it to Midway, Sanctuary, and the Royal Academy?
Michael (YarN) Elliott sends.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 23, 2012 8:00:19 GMT -5
Yes, you can bring that workshop to any of our locations or any of the Grand Rapids locations.
|
|