Gems?

[Sticks]

I like what is trying to be done with them, but have some questions.

1. What can gems be used for?
1a. I was told they can be used to cover production cost when making things. Correct/false?
1b. I was told they can be banked. Correct, but see question 2.
1c. Anything else?

2. Why do gems only get half value when they are banked, this seems like a discouragement to both the banking and the gem system?

3. What are the different shapes that are listed on the gem chart? I believe it has 7 different cuts listed but I am not sure what each of those means.

4. Sizes, are again confusing when looking at the eval chart for them. Jordan showed us an example of tiny, small, and medium when we asked which was awesome but it will get somewhat cumbersome if he has to do that every event.

5. How the chart works. My understanding is that you start with the size of the gem which gives you a base value, then you multiply that by the color modifier, you then multiply again by the cut modifier, and finally multiply again by the material modifier. Is this correct?

The main reason I ask is that my estimated value on the gems I turned in to be banked was VASTLY different then the actual value I got in the bank and I am just trying to determine where I made my mistakes so that I can avoid them in future. I was also asked a LOT of questions about gems and since they seem to be the main form of currency here those of us playing merchants need to have a better understanding of how they work.

Thanks,
Evan

[Admin]

Evan,

First off, let me apologize for the differing stories and general "messiness" that has occurred with respect to gems up to this point.

There have not been good and consistent rules in place for them up to this point. I am going to make sure that we have a consistent system in place for them for the next event.

I will also go through what has been turned in to this point and readjust. For this last event, any gems that were turned in will be re-credited at full value. The new system may or may not allow for this, but the determination that they would be credited at half value was not made by the chapter as a whole.

Since I don't have the system in place at this moment, I can't fully answer your questions, but I will give the following answers to give you an idea of what I am thinking for the system. Feedback would be appreciated, because I want a good system in place.

1. Gems will be able to be used to turn in at the bank at the end of events. This bank money, in turn, can be used to turn in for production needs. In the future, gems will not be able to be used to turn in for production directly. This is because, from a logistical stand-point, it would slow down check-in for the logisitics staff to have to evaluate gems at that point. We already start later than I like and I don't want to make that worse. Aside from that, they can be traded and exchanged in-game.

2. Giving half-value for gems being banked makes gems worth half their value. Period. A silver piece is worth 1 silver piece because you can get 1 silver piece worth of value for it. If gems go into the bank at half value, then their values are effectively halved. I don't like that.

At the same time, if gems can be turned in to the bank for 100% value by everyone, then this reduces the value of the evaluate item skill, obviously. I am torn between a couple potential systems. They are:

a. Everyone can turn in gems to the bank for 100%. This makes the evaluate item skill useful during events to determine the value of the gems, but everyone knows that they don't have to sell them because they will get the full value at logistics at the end of the event.

b. Characters with evaluate item can turn gems in to the bank for 100%. Characters without the skill can get a % value for them (somewhere between 50% and 75%, I'm thinking). This would reflect that someone who knows what they are talking about can get the full value, but others who don't get less. This gives more advantage to the skill and creates some room for someone with the skill to buy them for more than the bank would give someone and then make a little profit for themselves.

3. We will have a new chart for the next event that has pictures of what each gem type looks like.

4. We will have a template on the evaluate chart that you can compare sizes up against.

5. This is correct on the current chart, and will likely be carried on to the next version, too.

Sorry about the confusion up to this point. I thought this was going to be resolved before this event and will see to it personally that it is fixed before the next one.

-Bill

[Sticks]

I personally like the idea of those people with evaluate being able to bank gems at 100% value and those without only getting 50% value.

This still makes them worth something if you dont have evaluate, but leaves room for those people who have the skill to make some extra profit while providing a decent range for those with the skill to play the "merchant" game of offering different values for the gems.

I am looking forward to seeing this system when its fully realized. I think it has great potential for adding to the game and am glad to hear that the bugs are getting worked out.

-Evan

[Flinglecask Digroot]

I love that gems are a heavy part of the treasure system. I also like the system for knowing their value, without having to necessarily number or tag every gem. Cool stuff.

I also think Evan is right that 100% value to bank with evaluate, 50% value to bank without, is cool. This will screw me over--until I get the skill, lol--but it is neat for people with the skill to be able to offer, say, 75% to another PC and then bank to get some profit. Cool for everyone involved.

[Admin]

Another point that I meant to post in the initial...

I am thinking that the value system will fluctuate from event to event. At each event, there will be a new chart that applies for that event.

In either potential system, this would allow someone who is "in the know" to know that "clear tear cut" gems happen to be in demand at that time, for example.

A smart player could hold on to particular types, waiting to see if they become more valuable at some point and then banking them then. It would add another dynamic to the game, almost like a stock-market type play.

[Flinglecask Digroot]

That is a really cool idea, Bill.

[Sticks]

As a suggestion:

I know of another larp (shifted lands) that has what I consider the best gem system of all the larps I have played. Perhaps we can borrow a page from them and modify it to fit our needs. Here is what they did:

1. Found a set of gems that come in 3 different sizes and 10-12 different colors
2. Setup a value system for Small, medium, and large gems with each color having different value. So 30-36 different total values.
3. Bought a wax embossing/seal stamp thingy, then marked every phys rep with that stamp.
4. Printed up laminated color picture charts that show pictures of all 36 gems and lists the value of the gem on the card. These cards then went to those players with the appropriate skills (in our case, evaluate item).

The game uses gems as an extensive part of their economy and it seems to work well. Anyone who tries to cheat and buy the phys reps and "insert" them into the economy are just putting in fakes since they arent stamped and at one point I believe a plot was even run specifically about an NPC gem counterfeiting ring which seems pretty cool for underworld/sleazy type characters.

Would something like this be of interest? It would mean an investment of money to get the phys reps, but might be worth it as a means of simplifying.

The downside I see is that any other gems would have no value or you would need to have a category just for Other and give them a miniscule value to avoid cheating.

-Evan

[Admin]

Evan,

We've been on the fence about either engraving or stamping the gems in some way. The problem is that it's a lot of work and it takes a lot of time. I worry about coming up with one more thing that needs to be done between events. We're already spread pretty thin getting things ready as it is.

It's generally my policy that I don't go that far out of my way to stop people from cheating. No matter how much work you do, if someone wants to cheat at this game, they will find a way to do it. From my experience, cheaters get caught in time. If someone brings in extra gems that match ours, they will get an in-game benefit in coin for a time. But when we catch them, they never play in our chapter again. I like to think that most people wouldn't take the risk.

I like the basic idea of Jordan's system more than I would a more straightforward system. I like the fact that it takes that extra time to actually look at the gem and multiply out its characteristics. It seems to make it feel more like actual evaluation.

Of course, it takes more time than a straightforward list that just shows the gems and what they're worth. So that makes check-out a little slower. It's a trade-off.

How about it, evaluators? Do you think that the multiplier and variety of the current system adds enough to be preferable to a straight-up list with 30-40 gems on it?

[Bud Lewis]

Honestly, I prefer the multiplier situation because it also allows people who are more familiar with them and the method of evaluation a quick thought to both add of the cost and come up with a decent offer to the other character. I think that will add very nicely to the bartering that can go on. Plus if someone can give you a price off the top of their head you know you're dealing with a more experienced merchant of these lands.

[Sticks]

I can see both sides of this and simply wanted to toss out the suggestion. I do like the current system so hopefully it didnt come across as me wanting to change things to match this other games system.

Perhaps just having a picture chart with the cuts and sizes is something that we can take from their playbook and still use the multiplier system that is in place.

-Evan

[Dieben]

I love the stock market idea, it adds a whole new dimension to the game.

[Tyler Sevakis]

I love gems just on an "ooh, it shines!" level, but I've come to realize players wont accept them as currency!! Ive tried to pawn off my gems or buy things with them only to get a grimace. I guess this makes sense, what blacksmith would know what a chunk of topaz is worth? He certainly isnt going to take my word for it...Though he should! Also, if I were to withdraw all of my gold from the bank (This wont happen) would it be in gems, or coinage?

[dragonkiss]

Granted, I simply skimmed the posts, but I don't think the 100% with evaluate item bank, 50% without evaluate item bank is good for bringing in out of towners. It gives the locals an unfair advantage and opens the door to take advantage of those who don't know any better. I've already faced the hard reality of greediness in your chapter.