Ambush/Skulking Encounters

[Flinglecask Digroot]

I've been thinking and talking a lot about LARPs and tabletop games since this last event, and I've realized that many aspects of the game can be plotted on a spectrum of fun<--->ultimate realism. Sometimes things, to be as real as they can be in a fantasy LARP, would happen a certain way, but that way doesn't necessarily produce fun for the players, and in fact might dramatically undermine player fun. The goal in my opinion would be that the balance of decisions across the lifespan of an event would err on the side of fun, even if at a slight cost of ultimate realism.

For me, NPC ambush/skulking encounters are a type that falls too far down the spectrum away from fun for the players. It sure is fun to NPC a group of assassins or magic item thieves--to see the looks on the PCs faces and to pull off a whack and run--but getting steamrolled out of the blue as a PC is not fun. Sure it would happen that way if NERO were real, as what group of assassins or thieves would throw themselves upon the swords of the adventurers. But it isn't a whole lot of fun for the typical PC, I'd venture to say.

Aside from that, there is the matter of NPC efficiency to consider in this fun<--->ultimate realism spectrum. If that group of 2-4 ambush NPCs, instead of skulking around trying to catch a few PCs alone, had confronted larger groups and fought them for all that time, so many more players would have been entertained. Thus, shelving the ambush encounter in favor of more direct attacks can produce more fun for more people.

This same dynamic plays out when considering intelligent bad guys. I have played chapters where they directly confront the town almost every time. Here, they may use guerrilla tactics, hiding for hours and raiding late into the night. This is very real and very scary. But again, it is a matter of NPC efficiency. Those same NPCs could produce so much more fun by directly engaging the PCs over that prolonged period.

This is not to say these tactics should never be used. It should just be a balance. If it were me, I could do without the murderous goblin skulkers and goblin magic item thieves. These seemingly random, non-plot encounters are chewing up room on the ultimate realism end of the spectrum, while not adding a corresponding amount of fun for the average player. By ditching or minimizing those, perhaps room would be made in the calculus for some ambush greater undead.

What do you think about this?

[Admin]

fun<--->ultimate realism

I like the idea of this spectrum, as you know from our conversations. I think that I have a bit of a tendency to err on the side of realism and it's something that I will continue to work on. Because you're right. There are a lot of situations where it is better to focus on entertainment and less on my personal, burning desire to make things as realistic as possible.

But it isn't a whole lot of fun for the typical PC, I'd venture to say.

Personally, some of the most memorable and exciting encounters that I have ever encountered as a PC came when I was surprised by NPCs. Some of them, I survived. Some of them, I didn't. But every time, that burst of adrenaline that would hit when the encounter suddenly began was one of the reasons I keep coming back to NERO. I understand that I am not the typical NERO player, but I just wanted to point out that not all NERO players dislike ambushes.

For me, NPC ambush/skulking encounters are a type that falls too far down the spectrum away from fun for the players. It sure is fun to NPC a group of assassins or magic item thieves--to see the looks on the PCs faces and to pull off a whack and run--but getting steamrolled out of the blue as a PC is not fun. Sure it would happen that way if NERO were real, as what group of assassins or thieves would throw themselves upon the swords of the adventurers.

Aside from that, there is the matter of NPC efficiency to consider in this fun<--->ultimate realism spectrum. If that group of 2-4 ambush NPCs, instead of skulking around trying to catch a few PCs alone, had confronted larger groups and fought them for all that time, so many more players would have been entertained. Thus, shelving the ambush encounter in favor of more direct attacks can produce more fun for more people.

You make some very good points here. You're right. An ambushing NPC could spend hours in the woods waiting for the opportunity to have one, successful fight.

Instead, the NPCs could have spent those same hours playing mindless undead, the type that would simply feed themselves to the tavern. The PCs could have let them shamble around in the dark for a while and then let in one at a time to gang-beat them to dust.

Do you see where I'm going with this? NPCs spend 80% or more of their active time in a weekend doing the latter option. They walk across the camp, up hills and through the woods, to die badly. And then they get back up, dust themselves off, and do it again.

Playing roleplaying parts and intelligent ambush parts are some of the payoffs for those NPCs for the work that they do. It breaks up the monotony and gives them a chance to exercise different skills and abilities.

This same dynamic plays out when considering intelligent bad guys. I have played chapters where they directly confront the town almost every time. Here, they may use guerrilla tactics, hiding for hours and raiding late into the night. This is very real and very scary. But again, it is a matter of NPC efficiency. Those same NPCs could produce so much more fun by directly engaging the PCs over that prolonged period.

This is not to say these tactics should never be used. It should just be a balance. If it were me, I could do without the murderous goblin skulkers and goblin magic item thieves. These seemingly random, non-plot encounters are chewing up room on the ultimate realism end of the spectrum, while not adding a corresponding amount of fun for the average player. By ditching or minimizing those, perhaps room would be made in the calculus for some ambush greater undead.

In order to respond properly, I feel like I need to break your overall discussion out into two pieces. You make both points interchangeably throughout the discussion but, to me, they are very different throughts.

1.) Should skulking/ambush encounters be run, due to the fact that they provide very return on the fun spectrum?

2.) Should skulking/ambush encounters be run when there is not enough NPC staff to entertain the other PCs at the same time?
I had begun to type my own thoughts and realized that I kept bouncing back and forth between these issues. So, I am breaking them apart.

I'll respond to #2 first, because it's easier. I agree that, with exceptionally limited NPC resources, these sorts of encounters need to be used sparingly. I hope that our upcoming policy regarding mandatory NPC shifts will help to improve this.

For issue #1, I believe that skulking/ambush encounters are an integral part of our game. They have always been a part of NERO Detroit and they have always had plot reasons. Here's how I would break down my reasons for the continuation of these sorts of assaults:

1.) They add real fear to the game. When NPCs throw themselves at the whole town, stat cards really don't matter. Unless the stat cards get truly insane, the PCs will win just by sheer force of numbers. Skulking/ambush encounters change that dynamic and make our chapter a place where walking alone at night is actually scary.

2.) They offer a high degree of realism. While I agree that the "fun" meter for the average PC is low in these encounters, I believe that the high degree of realism involved can't be discounted. This is how intelligent NPCs would act, in many cases.

3.) They allow us to provide consequences in the story line. To pull back the curtain a little bit, I think it's important to provide a little information to help explain the "seemingly non-plot" goblin encounters.

On every occasion that K'Thess has dealt with the people of Sanctuary, whether in person or through an emissary, he has been insulted and ridiculed in one fashion or another. Acting this way is a natural result of what I discussed in point 1 above (fear). The PCs know that Bill as K'Thess combined with all of the NPCs as his minions do not stand the slightest chance of defeating the assembled PCs. So, they can get away with "mouthing off." K'Thess is not alone in this treatment. It has really become part of the NERO culture that bad guys are laughed at, due to a general lack of repercussions across the game.

I use K'Thess simply as an example, who, despite his impressive pedigree of banding together the goblin tribes and pushing the Wolf and Bear nearly to extintion, the PCs treat him like a joke. On an in-game level, I am sure that you can imagine how much this sort of treatment would get under his skin.

So, how does K'Thess get his payback? Does he throw himself and his minions at the town? Even if we had the NPCs to properly rep the size of his horde, it would be a futile effort once everyone fell back into their wards. K'Thess can't make a frontal assault in small numbers because he simply doesn't have individual minions who have the strength to match up one on one with PC-level power.

But K'Thess does have something effective at his disposal: the Burning Death Goblins.

With the exception of the Raven goblins and their bauble-seeking ways, all of the skulking/ambush NPCs we have put out are the direct result of PC decisions. They all come into play with a purpose because PCs have mocked/insulted/attacked/stolen from/otherwise-angered NPCs.

For these reasons, I think that these sorts of encounters remain a vital part of the game. As mentioned above, I hope that our new NPC policy will allow us to continue to use them, but while still offering more traditional entertainment to PCs at the same time.

[Flinglecask Digroot]

I hadn't really considered that those encounters can be part of the payoff for an NPC who has otherwise been a mindless punching bag for the rest of the day. That really is a great point that has to be considered.

I was conflating the staffing and fun issues. Thanks for breaking them out and responding to them as you did.

I am glad to know that there are plot reasons for most of the skulking encounters and tactics. And as I said, I am not opposed to them as a general proposition. There just has to be a balance across the event, and a fair allocation of NPC resources. If there were a couple NPCs skulking on the fringe while most of the town was being frontally assaulted, then I as a PC am either going to join the fracas and be entertained there, or walk to the PC cabin and get jumped on the way. Everybody wins.

Really this comes down to the recurring theme of having enough NPCs. If there are enough NPCs, you can do both kinds of encounters. If we are ever low, though, as we were at this event, to me it makes sense to move things down the spectrum away from ultimate realism skulking encounters to make sure the people that are there get in enough fights to sate them.

Thanks again for the detailed response.

Joe