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Post by Flinglecask Digroot on Apr 1, 2012 14:39:54 GMT -5
Hey all -
I had a really great time this weekend!! There were some amazing 100% roleplay encounters that advanced the plot, coupled with some great 100% combat encounters that let me rifle bean bags at people and stab them with a spear. Ahh, ying and yang. A wonderful thing. On to my far-too-lengthy specific event feedback...
Thank you so much for getting game rolling early. I had intended to be ready at 8, and as it turned out, I did not get into game until about 9:30. But I can't think of another time of when I've been in game so early. It's obvious you listened to feedback from the PCs after the last event, figured out a way to improve, and rolled out a great fix.
As far as the Emperor and Empress gather-the-pieces-from-the-woods task, this was fun because it caused us to have to search out in the woods. This can be a dangerous and fun thing to do. At the same time, once we had all pieces save one, the downside of such a task come out. Three different groups that I know of made long expeditions to go find the piece, and all came up short. I have no problem at all that we didn't find it in the end, but after hours spent on back trails and fanning out trekking cross country to find it, eventually the charm of walking through the woods fades, and it just gets tedious. That said, I don't like plot team "gimmes" when something doesn't work out, so thank you for not figuring out some way for us to work around the lack of this last piece.
One added benefit of all of that walking around in the woods, though, is we finally found something, albeit not what we are looking for, and most likely because we were in the right place at the right time, and not due to any hawk-like vision. That produced a really cool moment and series of discussions among those I was with. We never saw how it played into the bigger picture, which would have been cool, but it was a sweet moment nonetheless.
I had lots of in-game conversation with other PCs (Eileen, Culloden, Armond, Sir Devlin, etc.) about minutiae of stories and information from multiple different NPCs not meshing, which is causing us to wonder who we can trust. I love these subtelties, and how they are clues to the bigger picture. Who can we trust? Who is asking us to do what? What are there motivations? Do them mesh with our own? All questions that spring from running a deep story. Love it!
The celestial wyrm was very cool. The claw or tentacle things springing out of the ground and undulating around, then lashing out and crushing our faces, was something I haven't seen before. After some tense combat, I saw something else I have never seen before--a prop monster encounter being resolved by something other than the prop or the PCs dying. For those few PCs brave enough to answer its shouted demands to explain just why the heck it was torn to this place, nice job getting the information we needed and working out a deal to save our butts and get the job done. And Bill, I loved when it looked to me and asked me to make a vow. It was like one of those classic movie moments, when the camera starts zooming across the room, and the guy center screen at first doesn't think it is looking at him. He's looking around to see who it is looking at, then zoomed in right on him. His jaw drops as he puts his hand on his chest and mouths the word "Me?" Umm, [insert all sorts of dwarven babble about not hearing the whole conversation, followed by said dwarf hobbling away looking like a scared fool]. It was awesome!
I really was hoping we would get to summon the other side / other half of that thing on Saturday so we could fight it instead. I am sure there is an in-game reason why this did not happen, but I think people were waiting for that fight, and might have felt let down when it didn't come. As for me, after the Ravager, I now seem to have an insatiable appetite for prop battles. Bring them on!!
Bill and Christy as the spirits, wow. You came out separately, but I could feel the connection between them. Bill chasing us up the path was terrifying. Then later, Christy produced one of the scariest moments for me in recent history, when Traxel and I got caught walking around alone, tried to hide, and she ended up walking straight for us in the quiet dead of night. We burst from hiding and ran so fast and far, we found ourselves huddled in a ditch along the road before we could get up the courage to come back to town. It was awesome!
I really enjoyed the meeting with Rundra, Tarnian, the K'Thess ogre, and the townspeople. This was the culmination of years of story development, and was a critical moment for the in-game world. At the same time, there are many PCs who did not care to participate. What I like is that while that meeting was going on, you guys set up a sustained combat outside. Those that wanted to fight could fight. Those that wanted to talk could talk. Well done.
Bill, Jay, and Aaron, you guys nailed your parts in that series of discussions. Bill as Rundra was unreal. You could feel how bad he was beaten down, and how desperate he was. Jay as Tarnian, offering assistance seemingly no one else would offer, was cold and shrewd. And Aaron as the ogre (I am sorry I didn't catch your guy's name), as I said to you at the event, you played that guy perfectly. Your dialogue was right on, and I watched you express emotion as your character even when it was others that were talking. You really made that guy come to life.
Later Saturday afternoon, I think the PCs sensed that there were some long lulls. In my experience of LARPing, lulls during this time are not uncommon. A big reason I have seen in the past is that PCs are tapped and don't want to opt into any big fights for fear of getting pwned. The cool thing about limited reset, though, is we have a whole additional batch of skills to blow from the time we wake up, eat, and finally get rolling to evening reset. I had almost all of my skills left by Saturday evening reset, so I feel like there was some additional potential for NPC pressure and sustained fighting during the day. Bring on the hordes, from wherever they may roam! Make me cast every spell, throw every gas, and drink every potion, and I will die a happy man.
Jay, your roleplay by candlelight Saturday night was awesome. I loved how the little details of that just seemed to work out and produce a really memorable sequence. Thanks to you and Bill for the interest level there, and for dedicating that time.
I didn't see any modules this weekend, in the traditional sense. Groups of us did end up cut off from everyone else as we were chasing or being chased, but a balance of town stuff with traditional modules is a good thing.
Thanks for making so much cabin space available to the PCs this weekend. Having the whole tavern available was really great. Nothing beats sitting around a fire and discussing in-game matters. Evan, as usual, awesome job with the tavern. Going the short order style was a task, I am sure, but the menu was good (and well designed!). Next time, I need to get there earlier to make sure I get some pigs in a blanket and breakfast burritos before they're gone!
Speaking of the tavern, this is the one place that I saw where the flourescent lights stayed on all weekend, which can really kill the mood. I saw another LARP using that site make a call for donations of battery operated candles, tapestries, tablecloths, and the like, and instantly change the feel of that building. Can we do this? Once we do, keeping the flourescents off in the main room, and turning them off in the kitchen when cooking or cleaning is not actively being pursued, will change everything.
Some shout outs to other PCs. Asa, Dave, Jennele, Bud, Tyler, I had awesome roleplay moments with you guys this weekend. Thanks for helping to make my game experience better! To the new gypsy guys (I am sorry I do not remember your names!), you had great costumes and a great in-game presence. I really hope you come back to our chapter again, because you added a lot to the feel of the town. The Bard, I dug your costume a lot! And guitar guy, thanks for breaking out your guitar and playing from time to time! That adds a lot to the experience.
To the NPCs at large, thanks for dedicating yet another weekend to the often thankless task of entertaining us! The newer guys brought a lot of energy and good attitudes. Those go a LONG way! Garrett, you are a machine, dude. I never saw you get tired the whole event, and you kept the pressure on in fights. Loved it! Ben, I loved you as the wimpering wolf. Hope to see you all again next time!
Now let's get the next event scheduled and start the countdown!!
Joe aka Flinglecask Digroot
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Post by Admin on Apr 1, 2012 19:24:03 GMT -5
Joe,
Thanks for the feedback. I am calling it an early night, but I will put up my own thoughts about the event tomorrow and respond to your thoughts.
In short, though, thanks to our PC's for making all the effort we put into this event worth it!
Also, to everyone else, this is to remind you that Jay & I appreciate compliments, but we REALLY WANT your constructive criticism from the event. I think you've all seen that we are very thick skinned and we know that the only way we can improve is to know what isn't working for you.
Thanks!
-Bill
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Post by Bud Lewis on Apr 1, 2012 19:53:23 GMT -5
Seeing as there is already a thread started, I might as well put mine here as well.
The event was once again spectacular and I know I could go on and on about the the prop monster and everything that had happened, but there was one thing that I have to rant about.
The "module" Grukmaul and I went on was by far one of my favorite NERO moments of all time. I use the term module loosely, as what I appreciated the most about it was not the fight itself but the traveling to it.
Bill, I don't know if you had planned that specific path through the woods as the Nature Spirit, but as we walked and spoke, and as I asked my questions I don't think I've seen more natural beauty around me in my life. The atmosphere set in that walk, will forever stay with me as a NERO player.
I wish I could have been there early to enjoy the earlier start but we were not able to arrive until after midnight, but from what I've been told it was enjoyable. (Hopefully next time my brother can get out of work sooner.)
Some of the complaints I had heard, though I had not experienced them much myself was what I can only deem as lack of NPC training. They did seem like horrible issues, but ones that some people seemed to think were intentional. I doubt this highly, but I figured it best to bring it up.
I heard of NPCs swinging far to hard, enough so that it broke the straps on someone's shield and nearly nearly breaking a pair of glasses on an accidental headshot. And while I follow a personal rule of "I accept your physical roleplay if you accept mine" and "The harder you swing, the harder I will." I know many players don't have the same attitude and saw it as a safety issue.
I also heard about NPCs acting in character, but fighting out of character. Undead wielding claws like a rapier, unintelligent monsters targeting what only meta knowledge would tell them are "high danger" targets.
These kinds of things were getting tossed around alot after lights out in the cabins and it didn't seem like many people were bringing them up to you guys. Again, I didn't experience many issues myself, but I did hear plenty.
P.S.- Bill, if you catch me slurring my calls, do feel free to bop me in the back of the head.
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Post by Admin on Apr 2, 2012 10:11:39 GMT -5
Before I jump into responses to the feedback that has already been posted, I will give my own feedback on the event. Responses to posts will come in separate posts. As always, PLEASE give us your feedback on the event and especially the negative. We want to provide you guys with the best events that we can, but we can only do that if you tell us both what was good and (more importantly) what was bad.We had a lot of story to tell this event. In many ways, this event served as a reveal to a lot of the plot pieces that we'd put out up to this point and a a springboard to what would be going on with the future of the chapter. Jay and I had concerns about getting it all out there and how well it would all be received. As always, you PCs really came through for us. I enjoyed every roleplaying encounter that I took part in this weekend and I could just feel the energy from the players as you got wrapped up in it. Kudos to the new gypsies for diving headfirst into the plot with the Volkovs and creating a very cool scene in the tavern with Ashkollin. When we wrote it, we didn't know how it was going to play out and how far it would go. Thanks to you, it went all the way. The Emperor and Empress were those sorts of parts that I wondered about when I wrote them. Would PCs be out in the woods as we wandered as them? Would we have the opportunity to add a little eerie fear to the game? Thanks to you guys, we certainly did. Running into the group by the lean-to's in the woods answered that question. It was so dark that I don't know who was there, but I definitely recognized Madison's scream. And then I was lucky enough to find Joe's group, too. Fun stuff. I had similar apprehensions about the "Summit" meeting on Saturday. How were the PCs going to take this sort of encounter? I feared that it might simply devolve into my least favorite type of encounter ever: NPC talking to NPC. I hate exposition. But those fears were entirely ungrounded. Dave and Jenelle, your reactions to the revelation about Rundra made the whole thing come to life. Stu, I loved how you handled your role in it. Asa, excellent job walking that line. And Aaron, my hats off to you for playing the K'Thess emissary's part perfectly. Since I couldn't play two roles at once, I had to trust that one to you. You didn't let me down. I hope that you know, PCs, that you determined the outcome of that entire event. Through your ingenuity and roleplay with Rundra, you have helped shape the future of the lands. And it was a close one. To PCs:To Anya, Madison, Casey, and the whole wild elf crew: You guys are a blast. I've played golems and stone elves in the game of NERO for a while, but I don't think I've ever had such a hard time holding back a laugh as I did when I played the stone golem on Saturday. It started when you all hit the floor as I approached and then just kept getting better as it went. I hope you enjoyed that module a lot, because otherwise I feel like I cheated you guys with how much fun I had. Asa and Jeremy: Thank you. I won't go in to a lot of detail about the scenes you played a part in, but I'll just say that it was really cool. I can remember when you guys were brand new to the game and it is just awesome to see where you are now. Impeccable roleplaying and you add a lot to the atmosphere of the game. Thanks. Joe, Stu, Sean, and Jeff: As always, the presence of your group just adds so much to the game. Your involvement in the plots makes the time spent writing them worthwhile. I'm sorry that your hard work in the woods came up one piece shy of the solution. I can only tell you that they were all there at one point (and there may now be a squirrel king somewhere in the woods on a throne built from the last). Dave & Janelle: When Jay and I suddenly found ourselves running NERO Detroit, I had some apprehensions. I left running the game a long time ago when I felt like there weren't any PCs left who wanted what I was delivering any more. At the end of the first event we ran, I knew that we had found those PCs. And in the year plus that we've been playing together, you just get better and better. Talking to you guys after the event about the direction your characters intend to take things only reinforces that feeling. Just awesome. Devan, Jacob, and crew: You guys really feel like you're coming into your own as players and characters. I can see your involvement level rising. It's one of my favorite parts about running a chapter, getting to see new players become experienced. Iggy, Evan, Matt, Tempo (sorry I don't know your OOG name) and Dave: Thanks for taking part in the long-awaited trap challenge. I loved watching each of you approach the trap box, each with your own style and methods. I have to admit that I'm glad the trap got four out of five of you and look forward to giving you more challenges. And, Evan, thanks as always for keeping us very, very well-fed. The food at the tavern went to a whole new level this weekend and it was already damned good. Bacon-wrapped chicken? D-licious. John: As always, you add so much to the atmosphere with the way that you play Neville. It's a character type that you always find in fantasy novels but so rarely see actually played out in NERO. It's always a pleasure. Your roleplay with Rundra, in particular, was insightful and compelling, resulting in massive effects on the landscape. To the NPCs: Christy: I've told you this in person, but I want to make it public too. Thank you so much for coming out. I think that everyone would agree that you made this event a better one. Tim: I didn't pry to find out exactly why you had to NPC instead of PC for this event at the last minute, but let me just say that I am so selfishly glad that you did. You're a rock, man. People are going to be talking about the Lion Tribe encounter in the woods for a long time to come and you're a big part of the reason why. Aaron: Welcome back to NERO, part two. I know that there's been some struggle with getting up to speed on the rules, but you give Jay and I such a great outlet when we need the level of roleplay that you can deliver. Thanks. Ben: I know that you might feel picked on sometimes because there are mistakes here and there that have to be corrected. But you're young and learning. Just know that we appreciate you having there and the value you bring outweighs any issues that are easily corrected. The other two new guys: I'm sorry I don't know your names. You'd think that I'd have learned them after a whole weekend, but such is life. You were energetic and worked hard for us. Thank you. My post-mortem:I think that this event went well and improved over our last one, which is always my goal. I think that Friday night went pretty well. We had a lot going on and struggled with cramming it all in, but overall I think that it went fairly well. I had some concerns about putting the prop monster out on Friday night and those concerns partially came true. I wanted to change things up and not save the prop monster for Saturday night. Why? Because prop monsters always come out on Saturday night. Having it come out then, though, I think made things feel a little anti-climactic on Saturday night. Oh well, you live and run and learn. Saturday, during the day, could have definitely used more going on. We wanted to set the tone with the displaced goblin tribes, but didn't have enough happening to use up everyone's abilities from the limited reset. I'd hoped that the undead wolves during the summit would be enough to drain those abilities. But, looking back, I can see that we just didn't have the NPC numbers to both supply the NPCs for the summit AND effectively challenge the PCs remaining outside. Saturday night was better, but again we suffered from a lack of NPCs. The attack of the greater undead was effective, but certainly not enough to press the entirety of the town at once after they all congregated on the field outside the tavern. We had some successful harrying attacks, but didn't get the pressure on until later when we sent in the massive shambling undead hoarde. The Woods: We didn't get as much into the woods for this event as I would have liked. We had some things out there, some which were found and other not, but I wish we would have had time to make it more like the last event. I can promise you that this will be corrected for the next event. Overall, I think we succeeded as storytellers this weekend, based on the level of interest on the part of the PCs and the level of interaction with the NPCs that occurred. Where we primarily failed was in keeping the overall challenge level up consistently. Part of that I blame on our lack of experienced NPCs and part I blame on trying to tell too much story and keeping our most experienced NPCs (Jay and me) off the field too much. Aside from a few issues that I know we can address for future events, I had a really good time at this weekend and I'd like to thank everyone for coming out.
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Post by Admin on Apr 2, 2012 12:08:17 GMT -5
In response to Joe's feedback:
I am glad that you liked the early start. There are certainly downsides to it, the main being that Opening Ceremonies are just on paper and not a verbal discussion. I think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, but I really want to find a way to make the opening announcements stand out more. It appeared, from the game play, that many of the points in the handout were not driven home like they might have been live.
This was a tough one for us. I cannot reveal what might have happened to the final piece, of course. Sometimes, a little tedium can come with this sort of plot angle, unfortunately, though it’s not something we run often enough to cause major problems, I don’t think.
As a plot person, it can be hard not to throw that gimme out there when a plot doesn't pan out. But, from my experience, it just cheapens all of the successes that the players do have. And this way it will make the eventual success (theoretically) all the more satisfying.
I would love to hear what the thing you found was, but I think I have a pretty good idea. If it’s what I think it is, it should be interesting to see how it works out later.
We do our best to keep our stories interesting, and I am glad to hear that there these sorts of questions are popping up. Just like in the real world, not everything is black and white and not everyone will tell the same story, sometimes intentionally and sometimes as the result of different memories. We like to keep you guys wondering which is the case.
Am I reading this right? Am I really getting a complaint because we “only” had one prop monster at the event and didn’t let you summon the second, too? Just kidding. The “vow” moment definitely was a cool one and it was a challenge not to chuckle when you scurried off before making the vow.
She did see you guys, by the way, though she wasn’t sure at the time whether she was looking at people. That’s why she was moving closer.
As I mentioned earlier, this was one of the pieces of the event that I really, really hoped would work. I am glad that it did for you.
There were some lulls on Saturday. Well, from the PC perspective there were. From the NPC perspective, Jay, Christy, and the rest of the NPCs (myself included) were out as parts pretty much nonstop. We had a lot of different individual and team plots to cover during this time period. So, while those sorts of things were going on, I could definitely see where things would appear slow from a PC perspective. If Jay is talking to merchants, I’m dealing with the Fo’Karn, Christy is dealing with a personal plot for someone else, and we only have a couple other NPCs, there just isn’t a way at that point to put the pressure on at the same time. Running four or five of those kinds of times back to back to make sure people who have stories going and have supplied us with personal plot are attended to only prolongs that feeling for the other PCs.
This is a big part of why we implemented the PC-to-NPC system for this event. And I’d like to really thank the PCs who came and helped us out. If more people had come to us during those “lull” periods, we would have been able to do more. That said, though, looking back on the event, I can say that even with more NPCs, the 30-page write-up for the weekend did not have enough high-end parts written in to it to conceivably drain you and the other PCs of your abilities during this time period. It’s a problem that I intend to find a way to resolve for the next event.
And, PCs, please don’t take this response as some sort of indictment. I’m not saying “You should have come and NPC’d, so you have no right to complain.” I understand that we put a lot of information out there and that it can be hard to leave and NPC while your character is busy processing information or conversing with other PCs about it. I only mean to say that if you ARE bored and can find nothing to entertain you, coming to NPC would be a huge help for us and provide some entertainment for your fellow PCs.
This weekend did not have anything in it that would be considered a “traditional” module. By that, I mean that there were not any encounters during this weekend that took place in locations beyond the camp. Therefore, everything that we ran was in play on the camp (except one spirit walk encounter) and able to be encountered and joined by any PCs. That said, there were a number of encounters that only specific groups took part in at various points on the camp. The wild elves had their own foray into the woods, as did those who encountered the barbarians in the woods or the Fo’Karn initiates being brought out for something, as a few examples.
With 45 PCs and 7 NPCs, traditional modules are a tough thing to run. I had a few written for the event that I intended to put into play if we had a group of PCs come volunteer to NPC, but the most we ever got at one time was 3. Running a module with a bunch of NPCs tied up for an extended period of time only entertaining a small group of PCs was just not a gamble I was comfortable taking at this event.
Completely agreed on the menu, and it was great to have the whole tavern available and get the fire going when we did.
I agree on the lighting. We have lots and lots of in-game style lighting available at monster camp and have put it out there that we welcome PCs to come get it and use it to create a better atmosphere. I am hesitant to enforce a policy that the light must be off, though. Why? Because, in so many ways, I view these sorts of things as being in the PCs’ hands. It bothers me to see the lights on, proudly displaying all of the boy scout achievements on the walls in the dead of night. But, if we’ve made what resources we have available to fix it and nobody cares about it enough to make the effort to change it, it seems to me that I must be in the minority. I run pretty much nonstop from start to finish at each event. I would rather devote my time to things that the PCs care about. Not to beat a dead horse, but if I’d spent an hour or more setting up lighting in the tavern, that’s time taken away from the many parts that I went out as.
I am anxiously awaiting some potential camp dates from Evan, and can’t wait for the next event!
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Post by Admin on Apr 2, 2012 12:17:21 GMT -5
In response to Bud’s feedback
Thanks. This prop monster was a step forward in prop monster “technology” that Jay and I came up with. We hoped that it would make for a better fighting experience for everyone involved and I think it succeeded pretty well on just about all counts. It was much easier to wear/carry and even allowed me to run while wearing it. And the tentacles made for some nice defense and, I think, allowed for a pretty intense battle while it was going on.
I am glad you noticed. The camp really is a beautiful place by day. I won’t say that I picked the route because of its beauty, but rather for the stopping points I wanted along the way. Unfortunately, I missed the second stop (after the acorns) while we were talking and walking. I am glad that you enjoyed this non-module module (like I referenced in my response to Joe).
I covered these issues in another thread on the forum, so I won’t belabor the point here. I will simply say that we can’t fix NPC behavior if no one tells us about it.
Bud, I hope that you took my catching you slurring your damage for what it was: a correction. We all make mistakes in the heat of battle. I’m guilty of it myself and I am always glad when someone calls me out on my mistakes. It’s what makes us all better.
Thanks for the feedback and, more importantly, thanks for getting so involved in the plot of the event. While I talk about Joe and Asa like they’re my LARP-kids, since they started in my chapter, you and Tyler and others are like my adopted kids since we took over the chapter. Seeing your excitement level and your involvement in the story is great and makes it worth beating up this old body 4 or 5 times a year.
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Post by Flinglecask Digroot on Apr 2, 2012 12:26:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses, Bill. I see where you are coming from regarding the modules. With such a limited number of NPCs, I agree that you made the right play.
Here's a thought for the future. The PCs had an opportunity to sign up to NPC. I personally did not do so, mostly because I didn't want to miss one second of play time as Flinglecask. Then again, if there's event material that isn't getting run because no more than three PCs at any given time are helping out, I might take a different approach. In the future, if you've got material like that and you need a group of PCs to volunteer as NPCs, consider coming to the PCs during the event to ask for targeted help.
This way, every opportunity to deal with the potential for lulls is being exhausted. If the PCs want to sign up ahead of time, great. If, at the event, the PCs feel a lull and want to do something, they can always come NPC. If the NPCs need help for a particular thing, or feel a lull and need some acute help, come ask targeted PC groups to help out for a time. Just a thought.
I will say that reading your response to the lull point reminds me that so much is going on at events that we don't see. Not every plot or NPC can target everyone. You obviously had your hands full with breakout-type stuff during the day on Saturday, which at times kept you out of the main town. But you were still working your asses off to entertain. It's a waiting-your-turn kind of thing. Thanks for flagging the stuff that was behind the scenes for me, as a reminder of that.
On the tavern lighting thing, I completely agree that this should be a PC initiative. You have enough on your plate! The only involvement I could see the chapter having is making the call for the targeted donations for things we don't already have. If we've got enough period looking lighting, great. Then maybe the donations should be focused on bolts of fabric for me to sew into wall hangings, or things like that. But when it comes to Friday night of the event, we should be setting all that up, not you.
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Post by Falthen on Apr 2, 2012 12:46:13 GMT -5
Dear all, Do not take anything I am about to say as me not enjoying the event. I had a very good time and know that the new player I brought enjoyed the event and will be returning to the next one. There is. however, a few pieces of feedback I feel would make for an overall more enjoyable game.
I know that my party, as well as a few other PC's, got the feeling that there was no way to get involved in the main plot. It can be very intimidating, when you have all of these important NPC's talking to important PC's, to try to jump into a big conversation with such-and-such leader or "that guy, I think he's important". In such a plot-driven chapter, not being involved in the story and only getting small snippets results in some people feeling completely lost with no way of getting into the plot events happening. I know it's difficult to include everyone, but I know several people who felt completely useless because they weren't very powerful, and therefore felt like they couldn't get involved in the story.
These are just my thoughts, and I hope it gives a voice to some of the people who feel like their thought and opinions aren't being heard.
Also, in regards to my "costume", don't think less of me for the tweed jacket and borrowed beard, I lent my costume out to a friend and couldn't get it back for the event. That would be why I looked like and old professor who'd forgotten how to dress himself.
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Post by Madison Rizzo on Apr 2, 2012 12:55:07 GMT -5
Bill, You recognized my scream correctly Among all of us was our elves, Anya, Shantel, Ashley, Cassey and myself as well as Devon, James, Cody, and Nick. While we were in search of a piece we came across this ghost that scared the crap out of all of us and as soon as you threw the death spell we were all thinking, "Oh crap." It was really awesome. Our private little module was by far my favorite part of the event and I think the rest of the elves would agree. After seeing golems attacking the tavern like three times then seeing one coming straight for us we got a little freaked out, but it was very funny to just see 5 elves drop to the floor! Tora even got a little snappy at the other PC's at how much attention they were getting from having a golem follow there very command "LEAVE US ALONE WE CAN HANDLE IT!". It was so exciting. Special thanks to you, Bill, Jay, and Christy for that it was amazing. It was a shame we could not have had more NPC's to use for more modules I know we even asked before reset Saturday if you had any NPC's you could send out so we could use up the last of our spells and such before reset. I think the lack of modules was a good thing for us this event. Last event I was always on my feet and out fighting or searching. I think this event we did a little more sitting around which I actually enjoyed. Friday night my favorite part was talking with the awesome gypsies I think one of there names was Trex or Tracks, not sure exactly of the spelling and the other who's name I am drawing a blank on, you guys were so awesome to talk with Friday night when you came up to us when we were sitting all alone! Thanks for that. Also we had a story time talk with Bard and Eileen and it was really fun to listen to there adventures in the past. I felt like It was story time in kindergarten again with all of us sitting on the ground and listening to you guys I enjoyed that a lot! While modules are loads of fun I thought that just sitting around was fun as well. I actually did not get to help out with the celestial wyrm as we were searching for the last piece for the Emperor and Emperess in the woods and came up short but from a distance the scene looked very cool. As for the undead on Saturday we were only there for a little bit of that fight because Ashley was feeling a bit sick and Shantel was exhausted as well as myself so we ended up going to be early (Were so lame!) but the parts that we were there for were exciting and very fun! I think I counted at least 5 times poor Anya was paralyzed! I liked the fact that not all the undead were stupid powerful which gave us newer players a chance to take down some of the undead. Thanks to NPC's and PC's for making this event really good, I know for a fact my friend Cassey enjoyed it a lot she is already looking to buy costuming for the next event! Over all I thought it was a really great event and I am so glad I got to make it out with Cassey and Shantel for this event.
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Post by thebard on Apr 2, 2012 13:19:11 GMT -5
Having 'grown up' in a chapter without the morning reset, without meditation, and without cast on the fly, I'm used to being very frugal with my spells. Having gone through most of my tree before each reset was quite atypical for Bard, but shows you how much pressure you DID put on us. Story time with Eileen, the dwaflings, and the Ishi was fun. As a traveler, the minor changes in monster cards, rules calls, magic theory, etc usally means I have nothing 'scholarly' to contribute, even though I've been at it for years. Stories are the one thing I'll always be able to share. Sorry i had to bail out so early, but work at 7am didn't leave much wiggle room. I tried everything in my bag of tricks to fix your problems, but even the wildcard was insufficient. Until that certain problem is taken care of, there can be no more visits from Bard to Sanctuary, but I'll keep an eye out for where your events are being held, and see what I can make.
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Sticks
Full Member
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Posts: 143
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Post by Sticks on Apr 2, 2012 13:28:43 GMT -5
I would like to respond on the Tavern lighting issue.
I had originally planned on doing some decorations and lighting for the tavern and have done so in other games with mixed results. The main reasons I decided not to do so where as follows:
1. I already had a ton of stuff to bring with me just to run the tavern at the level I want it to be. 2. Other games I have attended players have complained about in-period lighting because its very soft and hard to read by, thus sometimes making interactions more difficult and referencing things like incant sheets problematic.
I was not aware that NPC camp had a bunch of lighting available for use. I should have asked, but it just never occurred to me. I was in the mindset that the tavern is mine, thus my responsability and the NPC's need what they have. I am already making plans for ways to spice up the tavern and increase the in-game feel of it, at the very least next event I will borrow some things from NPC camp to hodge podge a better tavern together. Like the game itself I work hard to improve upon the tavern every event, my focus so far has been the food and menu trying to find the best way to make sure everyone gets healthy delicious meals. With that pretty well pinned down I can now start to focus more on atmosphere.
In short, I accept your challenge to have a more in-game tavern appearance!
-Evan
P.S. Email was sent this morning requesting availability from the camp. I will pass it along as soon as I hear back from them.
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Post by Madison Rizzo on Apr 2, 2012 13:35:50 GMT -5
I take back what I said about my favorite part of the event my favorite part by far was Sticks' Cooking.
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Post by Admin on Apr 2, 2012 14:50:04 GMT -5
From Joe:
A good point, and one that we can try to work with, but there are a few reasons why I prefer to have the PCs be the ones to initiate coming to monster camp to volunteer. First off, we really have no idea what is going on in town from our cabin on the hill. We might think there’s a lull, but in reality the PCs are frantically discussing all of the things that we put out there and making plans. Honestly, with how much we were running around, we had no concept that there was a lack of action going on Saturday during the day, as strange and disconnected as that may sound.
Also, while this might sound impossible to people who haven’t run an event before, the time that it takes to go track down a group of PCs and ask them to NPC, then to make sure that I am ready to set them up for the module at the time they actually arrive at monster camp, is not a negligible amount of time. Time really can be that tight for Jay and me. If you had a camera at monster camp, you would see that there is almost no time spent that we are not doing something.
Think of this scene:
Bill walks in to town to find Dave Greene (who is always willing to NPC for us and makes that very clear).
Bill: Dave, can you come NPC a module for us?
Dave: Sure. We’re just right in the middle of sitting down to discuss <X> plot. Can you give us a little time?
Bill: Definitely, just come up to monster camp when you’re ready.
Let’s say a half hour or hour passes after that. It could be longer, depending on what might drag away their characters’ attentions. Am I even in monster camp when he arrives then? Or am I in as Ashkollin, talking to various PCs for another hour? Is Jay out as Krentin discussing trade options? Dave and his crew are all out of costuming at this point, so they’ve got to wait around for us. And, maybe, by the time we get back it’s time to run the next thing on the schedule and we can’t run that module then.
That’s why I like the alternative. PC group knows that I’m not in town as a part. They know that there is a lull because they are there experiencing it. They come to monster camp and ask if we have anything for them to run. I hand them the packet and go over where it should run and what they need to know. They go get into the right costumes and run the module.
I’ll say this. We will have multiple modules written at every event, waiting for groups to come and run them. We always will. If a group shows up, there will be material for them to run.
From Falthen:
First off, let me just say that you don’t have to worry about us taking your feedback the wrong way, which the first “disclaimer” paragraph of your post seemed to suggest. When someone tosses out constructive criticism, I actually take it as a compliment. It tells me that you care enough about the game and the chapter that you want to see it get better.
Your post sends me back to my first couple events in Ravenholt as a 16-year-old first level character. I walked into a chapter with over 200 PCs per event. There was a massive (40+) family of gypsies with a huge camp where they held parties and get-togethers. There were a dozen orcs and assorted humanoids in the woods named “The Pack” who were the scariest bunch of characters you’ve ever seen. There were four baronial houses, each with about 30 members who all dressed the same and played the part of nobility very well. There was an active healers guild and celestial guild.
And then there was us. Five PCs fresh off the streets with no idea how we could ever find our place in this massive group. It’s intimidating as hell, I know, to walk up to a serious plot NPC and just dive in and start asking questions. Imagine if you never even saw the plot NPCs. My first encounter with a member of the plot team occurred in my second year playing the game.
That said, the best solution to getting involved is the same whether the plot NPCs are walking around town in talking distance or completely out of sight as they were in Mass. PCs. Talk to your fellow PCs. Bend their ears and find out what they know and what they are willing to share. Show them that you are interested and most of them will be happy to talk to you. Better yet, join them. My character’s gateway to the story came through joining one of those baronial houses and working my way up from the inside.
Or, if you have the guts to take the plunge, just walk up to those NPC “important people” and start talking. Most of them probably won’t kill you. I can tell you directly that one group or person did exactly that this weekend and he or they now have incredibly valuable information about the plot that no one else in town knows (unless it was shared).
Plus, and I can’t stress this one enough, you can send us a character history. We’ve received a few and most of them we’ve worked with. The ones that haven’t been worked yet are in the works. As soon as we get a character history, Jay and I immediately look for ways to connect it to the plot. Sometimes, we see a connection that will work with a later plot. Sometimes, it’s something that can be worked in right away. But we’ll always get to them and character histories can be a great way to integrate your character into the story.
In short, we want everyone to get involved in the plot and will do everything that we can to make that happen. The one thing we can’t do is have every plot NPC walk around to every wallflower in the room and force feed it to them. It would take too much time and wouldn’t really make a lot of sense.
From Madison:
It was awesome on my end, too. Thanks!
I am glad that you liked it. Like I said in my own feedback, it was different and a very fun encounter to run.
This is always a really tough one. I felt especially bad not being able to set something up for you guys since you had come out in the morning and NPC’d for everyone else. I can’t tell you how happy I was to see you guys show up at monster camp first thing in the morning when I could barely keep my own eyes open. With limited NPC’s, though, it can be really hard to honor those requests for “we want to look for trouble in the woods.” If I set up something for PCs every time that sort of thing was requested, the lulls in town would be truly horrific.
As a suggestion for the future, why not find another group and agree to NPC for eachother? You see, if two groups come to monster camp together, I can use one as NPCs for the other and then swap. This gives both groups a module and only takes one person away from monster camp to run both. Just something to think about.
To be fair, I didn’t feel too bad about turning down your request, since I was just finishing up one other thing before I got ready to run the golem encounter that you mentioned.
This kind of stuff is great and it really helps drive the game. Thanks to all the people you mentioned for taking their time to share their stories.
Sorry you missed it! But at least you got to see it a little.
We try to make sure that, most of the time, we have a variety of critters out there, giving low levels and high levels the opportunity to square off against what works for them. I’m glad that it worked out and you guys got to fight the weaker ones.
Awesome! One more NERO addict is born!
From Evan/Sticks:
I certainly think you’re about the last person who should take the blame for the tavern. You have your hands full on the sustenance side of things. Looking back, I only mentioned the availability of the lighting with respect to the barracks buildings in the Opening Ceremonies handout. I didn’t say that they could also be used for the tavern, though I meant to. Of course, had I made the announcement at an actual opening ceremonies... lol
To Joe’s point on this topic, I will put up another official request for banners and cloth and tablecloths. We put one up before the Royal Academy event and were met with a deafening thud in those categories. Maybe we’ll have better luck this time, though. Looking forward to seeing how the tavern eventually comes out. Hey, we’re a fairly new chapter, but we’ll get there!
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Sticks
Full Member
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Posts: 143
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Post by Sticks on Apr 2, 2012 17:15:33 GMT -5
Im gonna try not to write a book like the previous people have, so here goes my short/simple review of the event.
Things I liked: 1. The RP! I loved the level of RP that was attained this event. It was not perfect but it had some stellar moments from the prop monster guy, to the meetings around the fire, to the silly goofy antics in/around the tavern. Loved it!
2. Friday night prop monster! Was super excited to see a prop monster on Friday! Totally unexpected although I was not sure what it was and was confused by why it appeared to be a giant undead bunny rabbit head.
3. Gems. I love the inclusion of gems in the economy and I really enjoy the system that has been developed for them.
4. Trap mod - simple, elegant, challenging.
5. Being able to step out of the tavern and join in the game on occasion and not feel that I was abandoning my post. THANK YOU to those who helped out in the kitchen.
6. Early Start = LOVED IT!
Things I disliked: 1. No prop monster Saturday night. I loved having the prop monster on Friday and was excited because I was thinking it meant they had two of them (one for each night).
2. This is only a minor issue for me, but I heard it from several others. Loot, specifically coin seems to VERY hard to get. Most players were scrounging to get coin off monsters and while gems are a neat addition to the treasure its not the same as having coins and gems to hold/feel and take home from an event. For a lot of people that is sort of like the imaginary paycheck after a weekend of imaginary work I guess. The treasure I did see seemed appropriate for the monsters but maybe some monsters that would have more treasure are needed at times...not sure since I only see a small portion of this sort of stuff.
3. I was shaky on the new evaluate item system because of its complexity but was willing to give it a shot. I spent all of friday and a good part of saturday striving to get my hands on something with a code so I could try to experience the system and couldnt find a single item that was tagged as an evaluate item. After asking around nobody else had seen one either. Not sure if we all just missed them, if things just didnt get tagged properly, or if the ball just got dropped but it was a little disappointing to have this new system and then have nothing come from it. I was thinking originally that the fur trappers coming in were a sure thing and traded for some fur pelts just for this purpose only to find out later that they have no tags at all and are entirely worthless (that last part is 2nd hand information and may be inaccurate, but without a tag I am not sure how to tell if that is true or not. My assumption is that its a fur, it should be worth something.)
Thats all I have for now.
-Evan/Sticks
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Post by redherringj on Apr 2, 2012 17:35:23 GMT -5
Falthen, I'm sorry I made fun of your sportcoat. It wasn't a genuine critique. I'm just a jerk.
On to more salient points:
Guys, I can well imagine the difficulty you have finding NPCs. I can't imagine the challenge of getting enough people to work that hard for so long. I think your policy of encouraging PCs to NPC was just the excuse I needed to enlist. I have seen another chapter be a little more "encouraging" by trading personal plot attention to a group of PCs in exchange for NPCing an attack. I have also heard of some games requiring at least a few hours of NPCing for all PCs, but I appreciate your softer touch.
I'll send my personal feedback to you via e-mail because I always accidentally say the wrong things and I don't want to post that. But let me say that I appreciate the policy of "realism" we have cooking here. As you said, WE didn't find the final piece of the card. But maybe someone else did? If we didn't connect the dots to get any major plot points going, then they won't go. We'll get something else instead.
I also appreciate the info available in the library, which allows us the opportunity to jump into plot as we please. Maybe this can address the point that Falthen makes? I also think that modules help as "mini-plot" and offer a sense of accomplishment. I think I missed them a little.
Something I would like to mention is the monotony of tavern fights. This is not an NPC or plot gripe. It makes tactical sense to stand in an indestructible building with only two entrances and cut down our enemies as they enter choke points, and NPCs can only reach us where we are. But gah is it boring. We PCs will never venture into danger (odd) so we stay. I would have appreciated a little encouragement to come out and have a cooler fight.
I'm glad to hear I didn't miss the modules. I do think that if the NPC numbers can be addressed that more traditional modules will help a great deal.
There are some PCs who are merely consumers, but there are more who are eager to help if they know help is needed. I think you have a new tavern decorating commitee already. Maybe get some PCs to run random encounters while you tend to modules? IDK.
I'm also trying to get a grip on the idea of PC to PC interactions as a way of passing time. I feel we don't have much of a need for each other yet, and so we're seperated into many factions.
I appreciate using the woods as much as you do. I have been to events that are "cabin, tavern, cabin, tavern, cabin..." and any effort at all to replace that is great.
I have also been to events where NPCs were so far from RPing appropriate combat styles that no one even bothers to address it. The fact that anyone is saying anything about the NPCs fighting as there characters suggests to me that the PC has seen enough from this plot team to expect that they do. THis weekend I saw goblins, ogres, and undead fighting as their type suggests. I believe the other PCs did too. A few slip ups is completely expected.
Anyhow, I had fun (especially as an NPC) and plan to do it again. Thanks!
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